<?xml version="1.0" encoding="utf-8"?><rss version="2.0"
	xmlns:content="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/content/"
	xmlns:dc="http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/"
	xmlns:atom="http://www.w3.org/2005/Atom"
	>
<channel>
	<title>Comments on: Unexpectedly modern</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.xmlgrrl.com/blog/archives/2005/11/07/unexpectedly-modern/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.xmlgrrl.com/blog/archives/2005/11/07/unexpectedly-modern/</link>
	<description>XML, identity, crafting, and other tangled musings</description>
	<pubDate>Sun, 07 Sep 2008 07:14:46 +0000</pubDate>
	<generator>http://wordpress.org/?v=2.5</generator>
		<item>
		<title>By: Eve M.</title>
		<link>http://www.xmlgrrl.com/blog/archives/2005/11/07/unexpectedly-modern/#comment-1936</link>
		<dc:creator>Eve M.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 09 Nov 2005 20:45:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.xmlgrrl.com/blog/archives/2005/11/07/unexpectedly-modern/#comment-1936</guid>
		<description>Ben-- Thanks for the book suggestion! Somehow I missed out on the entire Buffy phenomenon (she admitted, uncoolly) but would love to learn what linguistics contributions can be attributed to it.

Bryan-- Thanks for your comments as well.  I was trying to see if my new understanding would still hold up as an example of unexpected modernity, and it didn't...  Regarding your theory about intensifying "or", I'm not sure I'm following.  I agree about the "do X or I'll do Y" structure being an "if(not)/then", but I'm not getting how the "or" part helps that.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ben&#8211; Thanks for the book suggestion! Somehow I missed out on the entire Buffy phenomenon (she admitted, uncoolly) but would love to learn what linguistics contributions can be attributed to it.</p>
<p>Bryan&#8211; Thanks for your comments as well.  I was trying to see if my new understanding would still hold up as an example of unexpected modernity, and it didn&#8217;t&#8230;  Regarding your theory about intensifying &#8220;or&#8221;, I&#8217;m not sure I&#8217;m following.  I agree about the &#8220;do X or I&#8217;ll do Y&#8221; structure being an &#8220;if(not)/then&#8221;, but I&#8217;m not getting how the &#8220;or&#8221; part helps that.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Bryan</title>
		<link>http://www.xmlgrrl.com/blog/archives/2005/11/07/unexpectedly-modern/#comment-1935</link>
		<dc:creator>Bryan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 09 Nov 2005 13:12:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.xmlgrrl.com/blog/archives/2005/11/07/unexpectedly-modern/#comment-1935</guid>
		<description>'The way you’d have to say this in normal conversation is “I’ll carbonado your shanks, (like) so [brandishing own rapier]". Putting the “so” ahead of the verb would be really unusual.' 
well this may be the way you would put it in normal conversation, but not always the way an elizabethan would. 

I had thought it meant as follows:

If you do not draw, I will cut you. 

That 'so' acted as an intensifier but not an intensifier of the carbonado but an intensifier of 'or'.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8216;The way you’d have to say this in normal conversation is “I’ll carbonado your shanks, (like) so [brandishing own rapier]&#8221;. Putting the “so” ahead of the verb would be really unusual.&#8217;<br />
well this may be the way you would put it in normal conversation, but not always the way an elizabethan would. </p>
<p>I had thought it meant as follows:</p>
<p>If you do not draw, I will cut you. </p>
<p>That &#8217;so&#8217; acted as an intensifier but not an intensifier of the carbonado but an intensifier of &#8216;or&#8217;.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Ben Zimmer</title>
		<link>http://www.xmlgrrl.com/blog/archives/2005/11/07/unexpectedly-modern/#comment-1925</link>
		<dc:creator>Ben Zimmer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 09 Nov 2005 07:58:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.xmlgrrl.com/blog/archives/2005/11/07/unexpectedly-modern/#comment-1925</guid>
		<description>Though the Language Log hasn't taken up this usage of &lt;i&gt;so&lt;/i&gt; as an intensifier, you should check out Michael Adams' book &lt;a href="http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0195160339/"&gt;&lt;i&gt;Slayer Slang&lt;/i&gt;&lt;/a&gt;, which gives many examples from &lt;i&gt;Buffy the Vampire Slayer&lt;/i&gt;. &lt;i&gt;Buffy&lt;/i&gt; probably had a fair bit to do with popularizing intensive &lt;i&gt;so&lt;/i&gt;, similar to the show's penchant for using &lt;i&gt;much&lt;/i&gt; to intensify adjectives (e.g., "Jealous much?"). In both cases, I believe &lt;i&gt;Friends&lt;/i&gt; then further popularized the usage established by &lt;i&gt;Buffy&lt;/i&gt;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Though the Language Log hasn&#8217;t taken up this usage of <i>so</i> as an intensifier, you should check out Michael Adams&#8217; book <a href="http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0195160339/"><i>Slayer Slang</i></a>, which gives many examples from <i>Buffy the Vampire Slayer</i>. <i>Buffy</i> probably had a fair bit to do with popularizing intensive <i>so</i>, similar to the show&#8217;s penchant for using <i>much</i> to intensify adjectives (e.g., &#8220;Jealous much?&#8221;). In both cases, I believe <i>Friends</i> then further popularized the usage established by <i>Buffy</i>.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Eve M.</title>
		<link>http://www.xmlgrrl.com/blog/archives/2005/11/07/unexpectedly-modern/#comment-1909</link>
		<dc:creator>Eve M.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 08 Nov 2005 17:43:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.xmlgrrl.com/blog/archives/2005/11/07/unexpectedly-modern/#comment-1909</guid>
		<description>Hi Uche!  Yes, now I see that I was leaving out the fact that the context is a play, where you can actually gesture and stuff.  The way you'd have to say this in normal conversation is "I'll carbonado your shanks, (like) so [brandishing own rapier]".  Putting the "so" ahead of the verb would be really unusual.

However, I still like the notion of Bill S., tossing his locks like a Valley girl, penning this line...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Uche!  Yes, now I see that I was leaving out the fact that the context is a play, where you can actually gesture and stuff.  The way you&#8217;d have to say this in normal conversation is &#8220;I&#8217;ll carbonado your shanks, (like) so [brandishing own rapier]&#8221;.  Putting the &#8220;so&#8221; ahead of the verb would be really unusual.</p>
<p>However, I still like the notion of Bill S., tossing his locks like a Valley girl, penning this line&#8230;</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Uche</title>
		<link>http://www.xmlgrrl.com/blog/archives/2005/11/07/unexpectedly-modern/#comment-1907</link>
		<dc:creator>Uche</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 08 Nov 2005 06:20:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.xmlgrrl.com/blog/archives/2005/11/07/unexpectedly-modern/#comment-1907</guid>
		<description>Nah, I seriously doubt the usage comparison you suggest.  In

"“he’s so not into you”"

"so" acts as an intensifying adverb.  In the Lear usage

"I’ll so carbonado your shanks"

"so" seems to me to be more of a demonstrative adverb (I'm not a linguist, so I make no claims about the linguistic rigor of my terms).  Basically:

"I’ll [in this manner] carbonado your shanks"

I expect that our spleen-spitting Kent has drawn his own rapier, and uses "so" to mean "this here's what I'll use to carry out this threat, buster".

A more likely modern equivalent IMO would be.  "I said so" or "so let it be done" or "knead the dough firmly, so".

I'm not only so not a linguist, but I'm, like, so not a scholar of Shakespeare, so take my point with the deserved skepticism (IOW, don't jump on my say-so).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Nah, I seriously doubt the usage comparison you suggest.  In</p>
<p>&#8220;“he’s so not into you”&#8221;</p>
<p>&#8220;so&#8221; acts as an intensifying adverb.  In the Lear usage</p>
<p>&#8220;I’ll so carbonado your shanks&#8221;</p>
<p>&#8220;so&#8221; seems to me to be more of a demonstrative adverb (I&#8217;m not a linguist, so I make no claims about the linguistic rigor of my terms).  Basically:</p>
<p>&#8220;I’ll [in this manner] carbonado your shanks&#8221;</p>
<p>I expect that our spleen-spitting Kent has drawn his own rapier, and uses &#8220;so&#8221; to mean &#8220;this here&#8217;s what I&#8217;ll use to carry out this threat, buster&#8221;.</p>
<p>A more likely modern equivalent IMO would be.  &#8220;I said so&#8221; or &#8220;so let it be done&#8221; or &#8220;knead the dough firmly, so&#8221;.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m not only so not a linguist, but I&#8217;m, like, so not a scholar of Shakespeare, so take my point with the deserved skepticism (IOW, don&#8217;t jump on my say-so).</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Eve M.</title>
		<link>http://www.xmlgrrl.com/blog/archives/2005/11/07/unexpectedly-modern/#comment-1906</link>
		<dc:creator>Eve M.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 08 Nov 2005 02:31:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.xmlgrrl.com/blog/archives/2005/11/07/unexpectedly-modern/#comment-1906</guid>
		<description>Heh -- true...  Now to find some way to connect my third calendar to the first two.  Um, to cross-stitch you use needles, which are kind of like swords?  Yeah, that's the ticket!

By the way, only after I did this whole long post, I suddenly wondered if "so" in this quote is some reference back to "draw", as in "Draw, you rogue, or I'll [do so myself and] carbonado your shanks."  But even that takes a lot of squinting.  Hopefully a Shakespearean scholar will wander by here and explain all.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Heh &#8212; true&#8230;  Now to find some way to connect my third calendar to the first two.  Um, to cross-stitch you use needles, which are kind of like swords?  Yeah, that&#8217;s the ticket!</p>
<p>By the way, only after I did this whole long post, I suddenly wondered if &#8220;so&#8221; in this quote is some reference back to &#8220;draw&#8221;, as in &#8220;Draw, you rogue, or I&#8217;ll [do so myself and] carbonado your shanks.&#8221;  But even that takes a lot of squinting.  Hopefully a Shakespearean scholar will wander by here and explain all.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Micah Dubinko</title>
		<link>http://www.xmlgrrl.com/blog/archives/2005/11/07/unexpectedly-modern/#comment-1905</link>
		<dc:creator>Micah Dubinko</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 08 Nov 2005 00:49:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.xmlgrrl.com/blog/archives/2005/11/07/unexpectedly-modern/#comment-1905</guid>
		<description>Carbonado? Perhaps Atkins-tips aren't such a recent formulation either! -m</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Carbonado? Perhaps Atkins-tips aren&#8217;t such a recent formulation either! -m</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
</channel>
</rss>
